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A page for tracking progress of the Microsoft Tax Refund Quest | A page for tracking progress of the Microsoft Tax Refund Quest | ||
Manish from ilug-delhi is leading this initiative. His summary of the events till now | |||
Atanu> I need some info before I can take this up as a story... | |||
Could you be a little more specific please? | |||
Atanu> When you buy a pre-bundled Windoze and boot it for | |||
Atanu> the first time, does this licence pop up, or the | |||
Atanu> machine starts normally, and you have to access | |||
Atanu> the licence somewhere to have a look at it? | |||
You power it up and the second screen (first one is language | |||
selection, I think) displays two licenses (in small text boxes where | |||
you need to scroll a lot, possibly to discourage from reading it): | |||
first one is the MS EULA and second one is Lenovo terms and | |||
conditions. There are check-marks to indicate your acceptance to the | |||
licenses under each one. There's no other means to indicate your | |||
refusal other than switching the machine off. Unless both are agreed | |||
to the "Next" button does not get activated. I took a picture of the | |||
screen at that stage but it's about 2 megs. | |||
@Niyam: Thanks for everything. Seriously, I couldn't have spread it | |||
so far and wide and got involved so many people and publications on my | |||
own. | |||
Sudev> Manish do not feel that you are being made a murga | |||
Sudev> but "hum tumhare peeche hain" ;-) | |||
:) Thank you. I really appreciate the sentiment. | |||
Mr. Rao> 1. Most OEMs sell laptops with Linux/DOS preloaded | |||
Mr. Rao> on them. So you don't *have* to buy a Vista | |||
Mr. Rao> machine. | |||
As Dhiraj pointed out, hardware vendors do not offer high-end models | |||
with GNU/Linux. What if what you want does not come without Windows? | |||
Do you buy and compromise (i.e. pay M$ tax) or not buy and compromise | |||
(i.e. buy an inferior machine?) Aage kuan peeche khayee. | |||
Kenneth> I do not see why we should not reward those | |||
Kenneth> manufacturers that treat linux with respect and | |||
Kenneth> buy hardware from them. Maybe a small sacrifice | |||
Kenneth> that one will not get the 'exact' config one | |||
Kenneth> wants - but then, that is the price of freedom ... | |||
If the machine in question suits your needs, absolutely. But that's | |||
not the point. See more below. | |||
Anupam> Or maybe 'punish' the ones that don't by asking | |||
Anupam> for refunds.. Just as effective in my opinion and | |||
Anupam> you can buy whatever machine you want.. | |||
I agree except that it's not punishment. It's just being fair. | |||
I compared the refund/credit statements of Windows XP and Windows | |||
Vista EULAs. | |||
,----[ Windows XP (on a machine with functioning Vista) ] | |||
| IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL OR USE THE PRODUCT; YOU MAY RETURN | |||
| IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND. | |||
`---- | |||
,----[ Windows Vista (on a "virgin" machine) ] | |||
| IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THEM, DO NOT USE THE SOFTWARE. INSTEAD, CONTACT | |||
| THE MANUFACTURER OR INSTALLER TO DETERMINE THEIR RETURN POLICY FOR A | |||
| REFUND OR CREDIT. | |||
`---- | |||
The choice of words is telling. Microsoft seems to have left the | |||
decision to refund at OEM's/installers' discretion (at least in the | |||
case of machines preloaded with Vista.) And OEMs may conveniently | |||
choose not to refund at all! | |||
What galls me are the statements like these: | |||
"Nevertheless, 140 million PCs have sold with paid copies installed." | |||
(http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/02/technology/Kirkpatrick_Microsoft.fortune/index.htm?section=money_fastforward) | |||
Paid my foot, I feel I have been pick pocketed by Lenovo on | |||
Microsoft's behalf. Imagine MS as some kind of don and L as servile | |||
sucking up local goon collecting "hafta" (extortion money) or pick | |||
pocketing for the don. :) | |||
From my perspective, the whole issue boils down to these | |||
arguments/points to be settled. | |||
1. Is it legal for OEMs to bundle software with the machines AND | |||
charge for it and require consumers to agree to a license before | |||
they can use it (after having paid)? | |||
2. Are the terms of the Windows license (EULA) enforceable in India? | |||
3. If a customer does not agree to the license required to use the | |||
bundled software, then does/should the consumer have a right to | |||
refund? | |||
4. Are the terms of the license legally binding on only the paying | |||
consumers or also on the vendor (OEM)? | |||
5. Can OEMs refuse to be bound by the terms and conditions of a | |||
software license _they_ bundled and charged for (agreed they did | |||
not author it but they did charge for it)? If OEMs are exempt then | |||
how can the terms be binding on consumer? | |||
6. What is the fair price of Windows to be refunded? In my opinion, | |||
it should be at par with the market price or OEMs need to disclose | |||
the price at which they bought licenses (for legal entities to | |||
determine the fair price.) | |||
In case it turns out that this land does have a fair law and has not | |||
sold out to corporates at the expense of consumers, then following is | |||
what I expect to get out of this Mahabharat when/if this ends. | |||
Short term/this specific case | |||
----------------------------- | |||
1. A formal (verbal/written) apology from Lenovo. | |||
2. Refund from Lenovo. | |||
Long term/general case | |||
---------------------- | |||
3a. OEMs required by law to provide "No OS" option on all machines | |||
(No, I do not want to purchase or be force fed Novell Linux | |||
either.) | |||
Or at the very least | |||
3b. Legal requirements binding on OEMs to document, print and | |||
distribute the timebound and simple refund process (along with the | |||
cost that will be refunded) _with_ the machines; may be distributed | |||
as part of the user manual or as a separate pamphlet but _with_ the | |||
machine (not just hidden behind tons of links on their website). | |||
So I guess there are going to be two parts to this effort/fight: short | |||
term and long term. | |||
The short term part needs to be dealt with in MRTP and/or consumer | |||
court. BTW, meanwhile Lenovo is figuring out their address in India | |||
that can receive a legal notice. | |||
But what about the long term issue? Who/which organization needs to | |||
be influenced/educated to implement it? Do we even attempt it? How? | |||
Do we discuss it here at all since the list is for "Linux and | |||
Linux-related issues" and this may be considered off-topic. IMHO, | |||
it's not since it's about computing freedom. | |||
-- Manish | |||
* [http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/index.html#20990 Discussion thread in ilug-delhi] | |||
Related articles: | |||
* [http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/19/0154224 French Judge Orders Refund For Pre-Installed XP] | |||
* [http://www.fsfe.org/en/fellows/refund The FSF-E knowledge and experience repository on how to reclaim your "Windows Tax"] | |||
* [http://tuxmobil.org/ms_tax.html Tuxmobil: Some success stories] | |||
[[Category:Campaigns]] | [[Category:Campaigns]] | ||
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